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	<title>Comments on: Mom Asks: Should I Pay Rent for My Addicted, Mentally Ill Daughter?</title>
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	<link>http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/2010/03/27/mom-asks-should-i-pay-rent-for-my-addicted-mentally-ill-daughter/</link>
	<description>opiates &#62;&#62; addiction &#62;&#62; recovery</description>
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		<title>By: recoveryhelpdesk</title>
		<link>http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/2010/03/27/mom-asks-should-i-pay-rent-for-my-addicted-mentally-ill-daughter/comment-page-1/#comment-9557</link>
		<dc:creator>recoveryhelpdesk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2011 02:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/?p=963#comment-9557</guid>
		<description>I think you are right on track Suz.  Have you visited the blog I mentioned in the article (Let Go, Hang on)?  I think you and Anna are kindred spirits.  Check out her blog if you haven&#039;t already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are right on track Suz.  Have you visited the blog I mentioned in the article (Let Go, Hang on)?  I think you and Anna are kindred spirits.  Check out her blog if you haven&#8217;t already.</p>
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		<title>By: Suz</title>
		<link>http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/2010/03/27/mom-asks-should-i-pay-rent-for-my-addicted-mentally-ill-daughter/comment-page-1/#comment-9545</link>
		<dc:creator>Suz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 23:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/?p=963#comment-9545</guid>
		<description>As my son has severe addiction, depression, and other physical health issues, I&#039;ve had to act and make decisions that the &quot;enabling police&quot; and rehabs in the past might not agree with. If it&#039;s something he legimately needs that he cannot provide but I can, I do so AND I don&#039;t consider that enabling. However, if it&#039;s something he needs and can and should provide for himself, I tell him so. As parents of addicts with a dual dx, we are constantly walking a tightrope. Some folks in the audience cheer while others boo. What matters is trying to do the right things for all concerned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As my son has severe addiction, depression, and other physical health issues, I&#8217;ve had to act and make decisions that the &#8220;enabling police&#8221; and rehabs in the past might not agree with. If it&#8217;s something he legimately needs that he cannot provide but I can, I do so AND I don&#8217;t consider that enabling. However, if it&#8217;s something he needs and can and should provide for himself, I tell him so. As parents of addicts with a dual dx, we are constantly walking a tightrope. Some folks in the audience cheer while others boo. What matters is trying to do the right things for all concerned.</p>
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		<title>By: recoveryhelpdesk</title>
		<link>http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/2010/03/27/mom-asks-should-i-pay-rent-for-my-addicted-mentally-ill-daughter/comment-page-1/#comment-7709</link>
		<dc:creator>recoveryhelpdesk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jan 2011 02:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/?p=963#comment-7709</guid>
		<description>Hi Mike, Thanks for your comment.  You speak from personal experience and what you have to say is important.  It&#039;s interesting that we allow the &quot;enabling&quot; police to silence our own internal voices of common sense and experience  --to say nothing of our public voice.  Keep talking Mike!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mike, Thanks for your comment.  You speak from personal experience and what you have to say is important.  It&#8217;s interesting that we allow the &#8220;enabling&#8221; police to silence our own internal voices of common sense and experience  &#8211;to say nothing of our public voice.  Keep talking Mike!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/2010/03/27/mom-asks-should-i-pay-rent-for-my-addicted-mentally-ill-daughter/comment-page-1/#comment-7675</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 11:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/?p=963#comment-7675</guid>
		<description>This is what I&#039;ve been debating on talking about with people. I was hesitant because I thought I would get in trouble with people that follow the enabler mentality. I believe that this topic applies to many situations! In fact I would not be here today if not for my parents driving to where I was living and taking me away from that environment and into their home. I also was very motivated from the start as well.  I think that is the big difference and reason that I&#039;m doing well now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what I&#8217;ve been debating on talking about with people. I was hesitant because I thought I would get in trouble with people that follow the enabler mentality. I believe that this topic applies to many situations! In fact I would not be here today if not for my parents driving to where I was living and taking me away from that environment and into their home. I also was very motivated from the start as well.  I think that is the big difference and reason that I&#8217;m doing well now.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/2010/03/27/mom-asks-should-i-pay-rent-for-my-addicted-mentally-ill-daughter/comment-page-1/#comment-264</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2010 23:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/?p=963#comment-264</guid>
		<description>Heather&#039;s Mom, It might make sense to start having conversations with your parents and brother separately about whether or not they are satisfied with the current living arrangements, and whether or not they would consider it a good thing for your brother to live some place else.  I suspect they all may like that, but have concerns and anxiety around making a change.  If you can get them to give you permission to explore options, it will help when you start finding other options.  It may be a process to get your brother to agree to paperwork, assessments, and appointments that may need to happen.  But if he is interested in the goal, it will be easier.  

You may be able to find housing options via programs for the homeless, vets, or people who are mentally ill.  You may be able to put things in terms of helping your parents financially.  He may feel bad about not being able to pay his own way, and if you put it in terms of the government or a program giving his parents money instead of him money it may help.  It would probably be better for your parents to be his benefits payee instead of having him control his own money anyway.

Under many programs, the definition of homeless includes people who are &quot;marginally housed.&quot;  It sounds like your brother would be homeless if your parents did not let him stay with them, so he may meet requirements under these programs.

I would start exploring housing programs (such as those mentioned in the post above), veterans benefits and disability benefits and explain to people the issue with his refusal to apply because of his mental illness.  There may be reasonable accommodations that programs will (and may have to under federal law) make under the circumstances.

I&#039;m not sure how old your parents are, but it would be wise to start some planning now anyway, because your parents may not be able to sustain this situation in the long term.

Consider contacting mental health, veterans or other advocacy organizations if needed.  You could also contact your federal legislators&#039; offices.  They have staff who will help address your concerns with performance of federal agencies.

I&#039;d start slow with brief, informal conversations and see how things go.  In the mean time, you could spend some time exploring options on your own.

I have not worked with anyone in this situation before and don&#039;t have a lot of the facts, so these are just suggested starting points.  Hope they help, and best of luck to you and your family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heather&#8217;s Mom, It might make sense to start having conversations with your parents and brother separately about whether or not they are satisfied with the current living arrangements, and whether or not they would consider it a good thing for your brother to live some place else.  I suspect they all may like that, but have concerns and anxiety around making a change.  If you can get them to give you permission to explore options, it will help when you start finding other options.  It may be a process to get your brother to agree to paperwork, assessments, and appointments that may need to happen.  But if he is interested in the goal, it will be easier.  </p>
<p>You may be able to find housing options via programs for the homeless, vets, or people who are mentally ill.  You may be able to put things in terms of helping your parents financially.  He may feel bad about not being able to pay his own way, and if you put it in terms of the government or a program giving his parents money instead of him money it may help.  It would probably be better for your parents to be his benefits payee instead of having him control his own money anyway.</p>
<p>Under many programs, the definition of homeless includes people who are &#8220;marginally housed.&#8221;  It sounds like your brother would be homeless if your parents did not let him stay with them, so he may meet requirements under these programs.</p>
<p>I would start exploring housing programs (such as those mentioned in the post above), veterans benefits and disability benefits and explain to people the issue with his refusal to apply because of his mental illness.  There may be reasonable accommodations that programs will (and may have to under federal law) make under the circumstances.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how old your parents are, but it would be wise to start some planning now anyway, because your parents may not be able to sustain this situation in the long term.</p>
<p>Consider contacting mental health, veterans or other advocacy organizations if needed.  You could also contact your federal legislators&#8217; offices.  They have staff who will help address your concerns with performance of federal agencies.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d start slow with brief, informal conversations and see how things go.  In the mean time, you could spend some time exploring options on your own.</p>
<p>I have not worked with anyone in this situation before and don&#8217;t have a lot of the facts, so these are just suggested starting points.  Hope they help, and best of luck to you and your family.</p>
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		<title>By: Heather's Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/2010/03/27/mom-asks-should-i-pay-rent-for-my-addicted-mentally-ill-daughter/comment-page-1/#comment-257</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather's Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2010 04:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/?p=963#comment-257</guid>
		<description>I was thinking about this tonight. My brother is mentally ill and often verbally abusive to my parents. (The police have even been called) My parents have an alcoholic/codependent relationship where they are usually yelling and belittling each other. I was thinking my brother needs to get out of there and could my parents pay for him to do so and would it be right? He can&#039;t work so doesn&#039;t have money to get a place of his own. He won&#039;t go on disability or his (not sure what it&#039;s called) stuff from the marines b/c of his conspiracy concerns. I pray for the day he gets better and they can all find and experience peace.
God bless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was thinking about this tonight. My brother is mentally ill and often verbally abusive to my parents. (The police have even been called) My parents have an alcoholic/codependent relationship where they are usually yelling and belittling each other. I was thinking my brother needs to get out of there and could my parents pay for him to do so and would it be right? He can&#8217;t work so doesn&#8217;t have money to get a place of his own. He won&#8217;t go on disability or his (not sure what it&#8217;s called) stuff from the marines b/c of his conspiracy concerns. I pray for the day he gets better and they can all find and experience peace.<br />
God bless.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/2010/03/27/mom-asks-should-i-pay-rent-for-my-addicted-mentally-ill-daughter/comment-page-1/#comment-240</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 01:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/?p=963#comment-240</guid>
		<description>Thanks Helga.  I agree with you that the parent/child relationship is very different than the counselor/client relationship.  You make a valid point.

At the same time, I wouldn&#039;t dismiss the idea that the approach also matters, and can help parents understand a better approach for themselves.

Many counselors/treatment providers (like many parents) are unsuccessful at engaging and retaining clients in treatment.  The average number of times a counselor meets with a client is once!  Many providers rely on captive (residential) or coerced (corrections mandated) clients to make a living.

In other words, the approach matters too.

In my opinion, the issue isn&#039;t that parents need to stop &quot;enabling.&quot;  The issue is that parents need to learn how to both set appropriate boundaries AND provide appropriate supports.  

And they need to learn enough about recovery to either help their son or daughter create a realistic treatment plan that is both effective and acceptable to the addicted person, or find somebody who can (not an easy task either since most providers only focus on their own treatment modality and have no concept of how to create a comprehensive, long term and effective treatment plan).

On the issue of respecting parents versus respecting strangers, I don&#039;t &quot;demand&quot; much respect from clients.  You can be late, you can no show, you can swear, you can answer your cellphone in the middle of our meeting, and you can get away with almost anything short of violence.  I&#039;m not there to teach etiquette, enforce rules, teach discipline or responsibility.  I keep my eye on the prize.  Yet I get the kind of respect I really want...they keep coming back, keep trying, believe I care about them, and consider what I say and often act on it.  

I get that respect because I care more about supporting them than I care about controlling them.  That feels rare in their world.

I suggest that parents decide to focus less on controlling use (especially controlling by withholding communication or support), and more on setting appropriate personal boundaries and providing appropriate support that is consistent with personal boundaries.

Thanks for your comment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Helga.  I agree with you that the parent/child relationship is very different than the counselor/client relationship.  You make a valid point.</p>
<p>At the same time, I wouldn&#8217;t dismiss the idea that the approach also matters, and can help parents understand a better approach for themselves.</p>
<p>Many counselors/treatment providers (like many parents) are unsuccessful at engaging and retaining clients in treatment.  The average number of times a counselor meets with a client is once!  Many providers rely on captive (residential) or coerced (corrections mandated) clients to make a living.</p>
<p>In other words, the approach matters too.</p>
<p>In my opinion, the issue isn&#8217;t that parents need to stop &#8220;enabling.&#8221;  The issue is that parents need to learn how to both set appropriate boundaries AND provide appropriate supports.  </p>
<p>And they need to learn enough about recovery to either help their son or daughter create a realistic treatment plan that is both effective and acceptable to the addicted person, or find somebody who can (not an easy task either since most providers only focus on their own treatment modality and have no concept of how to create a comprehensive, long term and effective treatment plan).</p>
<p>On the issue of respecting parents versus respecting strangers, I don&#8217;t &#8220;demand&#8221; much respect from clients.  You can be late, you can no show, you can swear, you can answer your cellphone in the middle of our meeting, and you can get away with almost anything short of violence.  I&#8217;m not there to teach etiquette, enforce rules, teach discipline or responsibility.  I keep my eye on the prize.  Yet I get the kind of respect I really want&#8230;they keep coming back, keep trying, believe I care about them, and consider what I say and often act on it.  </p>
<p>I get that respect because I care more about supporting them than I care about controlling them.  That feels rare in their world.</p>
<p>I suggest that parents decide to focus less on controlling use (especially controlling by withholding communication or support), and more on setting appropriate personal boundaries and providing appropriate support that is consistent with personal boundaries.</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment!</p>
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		<title>By: Helga</title>
		<link>http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/2010/03/27/mom-asks-should-i-pay-rent-for-my-addicted-mentally-ill-daughter/comment-page-1/#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator>Helga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 01:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recoveryhelpdesk.com/?p=963#comment-239</guid>
		<description>Tom,
While I don&#039;t totally disagree with your philosophies, I believe that the reason you have success with these kind of  programs (providing housing, etc.) is because it is a &quot;program&quot;.  Kids tend to take advantage of their parents, especially addict kids.  It is possible that they respect &quot;strangers&quot; more and therefore you are able to help more successfully than parents can.  Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,<br />
While I don&#8217;t totally disagree with your philosophies, I believe that the reason you have success with these kind of  programs (providing housing, etc.) is because it is a &#8220;program&#8221;.  Kids tend to take advantage of their parents, especially addict kids.  It is possible that they respect &#8220;strangers&#8221; more and therefore you are able to help more successfully than parents can.  Just a thought.</p>
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